iSummit legal day - liveblog 4
Session 4 and 5 Collecting societies
Paul Keller of CC Netherlands updated the group on collecting socities.
Key points:
Two approches to Collecting Societies and their interaction with CC:
- A clause to allow people to opt out of the Collecting Societies (for jurisdictions that mandate their use).
- A hybrid approach where members (authors/owners) can do a Non Commercial option. This could be approached by CS members asking the Collecting Society for the NC rights back from them.
Interestingly Paul Keller went on to discuss further definitions of non-commercial. He suggested that:
Any use by a commercial entity is commercial use. This seems to imply that use by non-commercial entities would automatically be non-commercial. As I mentioned in an earlier post, this is not clear in the licence itself, though I think that many people think of this distinction (based on type of business) as the balance in “non-commercial”, but I’m not sure that this is what a court would find.
Payment for use of a work or including advertisements would be commercial. There can be some problems with the having of adverts on a site and people’s expectations and the practicality of prohibiting adverts, which should be examined. I agree, however, that direct payment is the most clear case of commercial use.
Use by broadcast organisations and any bars, restaurants, or shops would be commercial. This seems really close to the heart of the Collecting Society model — issuing licences for these establishments is a major revenue stream. I think that this can conflict with the first example — there are many non-profit cafes or restaurants (the Forest in Edinburgh is one) where they currently must pay a CS for playing music. I also wonder where bars, restaurants and businesses that fall under the “home style” exception in US law would fit in - is there a situation where one of these businesses couldn’t use CC-NC works but could use other works because of the exception? Have to think about this one a bit more…
Validity of a guide for NC
I’m not sure how a guide such as the one suggested would fit in — a CC licence (or contract) is between two parties, and “non-commercial” would be construed based on the intent of the licensor (the author or owner of the work). A guide might help show the intent of the licensor (if it can be shown that this is what they meant), but if it is not in the licence (as a definition or a clause) then I don’t think it would be automatically included.
Melanie Dulong de Rosnay (CC-France) update on efforts with French collecting societies
Key points:
SACD, which covers audiovisual authors, now says that members can use CC-NC licences, but this is an informal statement and the law behind the society (I’m assuming using the CS is compulsory in France).
- She had some funny stories about being accused by people at some of the collecting societies as being too young to understand the issues
- CC was funded by imperialist companies who want to destroy copyright and compulsory licensing systems
- (most hilarious) part of a “cybernetic cult”
She also mentioned the possibility of a statute making opting for your work to be in the public domain a reality (some jurisdictions do not allow creators to dedicate works to the public domain, and I assume France is one of them).
Maybe Nicolas Jondet can chime in on the French law issues.
David Uwemedimo, Director of Legal and Political Affairs for CISAC
CISAC is a confederation of collecting societies from all over the world.
After an introduction by Lessig, Mr. Uwemedimo went over the relationship between collecting societies and Creative Commons. This was a pretty positive talk, and discussed how the two can work together. He believes (and rightly so) that both groups only want to help creators use their works. He gave a history of collecting societies and some of the reasons why collecting societies benefit creators. This was a good grounding for the discussion to remind everyone of their utility — not everyone approaching the issue sees their value when looking at the issue. All and all a positive talk — and generally positive remarks from the audience — about ways to work together. In particular he commented on how great the CC people were to work with on these issues in comparison to other groups.
This is the final session of the day, and now we are off for a tour, dinner, and some music in the evening!
